The TechMobility Podcast
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The TechMobility Podcast
Rivian's Micromobility Revolution, America's Most Dependable Vehicles, No Human Need Apply, Navigating Trucking's Messy Middle
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Rivian is expanding beyond traditional electric vehicles with a bold new venture into micromobility. The EV manufacturer that's attracted billions in investment from Amazon, Ford, and Volkswagen has launched "ALSO" – a separate startup focused on developing small, lightweight electric vehicles for global markets. With $105 million in initial funding from Eclipse Ventures, ALSO represents Rivian's acknowledgment that transportation solutions must vary dramatically across different cultures and geographies. While Americans embrace spacious trucks and SUVs thanks to our highway-centric infrastructure, many global markets require entirely different approaches to mobility.
Meanwhile, Shopify's CEO Toby Lutke has implemented a radical new hiring policy that could foreshadow dramatic workplace changes. Teams must now "assume AI, prove the need for humans" – demonstrating that artificial intelligence cannot adequately perform a job function before justifying human hires. This raises profound questions about who determines when AI is insufficient and what metrics should evaluate human necessity. As an e-commerce platform helping businesses leverage technology, Shopify appears to be applying the same efficiency-focused approach internally.
The automotive reliability landscape revealed surprising strength from American manufacturers in JD Power's latest Vehicle Dependability Survey. While Lexus claimed the top spot, Buick secured second place overall and ranked as the top mass-market brand, outperforming Toyota. Even more surprising was General Motors' dominance with four brands in the top ten: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, and GMC – challenging assumptions about domestic versus import reliability.
We also explore commercial trucking's "messy middle" – the experimental phase between traditional diesel power and zero-emission transportation that could last decades. For long-haul applications, battery electric solutions face significant challenges with weight, range, and charging time, while alternatives like hydrogen fuel cells offer promising but still-developing paths forward. Call or text The TechMobility Hotline at 872-222-9793 to join the conversation about these transformative mobility developments.
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Speaker 2:I'm Ken Chester On the docket top finishers in the annual JD Power Vehicle Dependability Survey. No new hires unless AI can't handle it and navigating the messy middle in commercial trucking. To add your voice to the conversation, be it to ask questions, share an opinion or even suggest a topic for future discussion, call or text the TechMobility hotline, and you know the number 872-222-9793. Or you can email the show directly. Talk at techmobilityshow. Also, don't forget to like, subscribe and follow us on social media, our YouTube channel and our two podcasts the Tech Mobility Podcast and Tech Mobility Topics From the Tech Mobility News Desk.
Speaker 2:Rivian. Rivian is one of the more successful, after Tesla, ev manufacturers. Rivian has attracted investment not just from Amazon, ford Motor Company and now even Volkswagen has invested not just millions but billions of dollars into what Rivian is doing and, unlike a lot of other EV manufacturers that struggle for capital, struggle to get to market, struggle to get it going, rivian's been very successful. They bought the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal Illinois. They're building a brand new plant in Georgia. They do have vehicles off the line and been in production now for a few years, have ventured into commercial vehicles thanks to Amazon's investment and then finally even kicked that door open, that now Amazon is not mutually exclusive anymore. They can sell those vans to anybody willing to buy them. So Rivian's been on quite a roll and in some ways really is more diversified as a company than even Tesla is. So one of the success stories. The reason why I bring Rivian up during our visit, during this visit, is, if all of that wasn't enough, this is from Automotive Dive and they talk about they're spinning off a micro-mobility unit as a new startup aptly named ALSO, and ALSO will focus on small, lightweight electric vehicles to address global mobility transportation challenges, according to the EV maker.
Speaker 2:Global mobility transportation challenges, according to the EV maker. It is an acknowledgment by this EV manufacturer that one size does not fit all and that if you're going to be around, if you're going to be prepared to compete globally, you have to have an open mind about what mobility is defined as in other countries, especially emerging countries, sometimes it's an electric bike, or it's a scooter, or it's something else. That is not something you would normally find in America. See, in America we've got wide open spaces and we built a whole economy based on the motor vehicle, our highways, our roads. Only the oldest cities in extreme northeast, like Boston and New York are hemmed in somewhat because they predated the motor vehicle in some cases by over 200 years. As you go west, no such requirements and no such restrictions happen, which is why you've got the urban sprawl you have in LA. You have wide open spaces out here in the Midwest where you have road and basically we got big vehicles Out here in the Midwest. It is not uncommon to see in any small town, let alone big cities, nothing but pickup trucks, sometimes even three-quarter ton and one-ton work trucks as daily drivers for people. That is a way of life out here that really you'll see everything and anything. But those vehicles do not work in many parts of the world because the needs are different, the roads are different, the society is different.
Speaker 2:So a few years back Rivian started kind of a skunk works looking at different ways they could leverage their EV knowledge into different types of vehicles, ways they could leverage their EV knowledge into different types of vehicles. In fact they start with a $105 million investment from a venture capital firm called Eclipse Ventures, which will support this next phase of the startup's growth. The future plans of ALSO may include collaboration with Rivian itself, including the use of the company's EV retail locations within urban centers, where maybe their standard offerings of a pickup truck and an SUV don't work, that they may actually have something for somebody either wants to spend way less money but is very conscious of their carbon footprint or want a better solution than what is available now. Better solution than what is available now. Also, what started originally. It was launched to look for ways to apply the company's core strengths in software, electronics and electric propulsion to develop new micromobility offerings, such as electric bicycles, in order to address the global transportation challenges, both today and, more importantly, in the future. Rivian said also that it recognized the need for small, battery-powered vehicles to support the global transportation industry's shift towards more sustainable forms of mobility.
Speaker 2:We saw that in the United States about seven or eight years ago with the flood of little EV scooters, where a lot of these companies like Jump and Spin and Bird came and said it was better to ask apology than permission and flooded, just flooded, without warning a lot of our major cities with these inexpensive e-scooters and priced them so ridiculously low that people was compelled to try them but had tons of problems with them, which is why hardly you don't see any of them now, in addition, for them to be horrifically abused. It lasted like 18 months it was the average life getting them in the right place, making it safe for everybody, people doing stupid stuff with stupid bikes. It didn't. The model didn't really work, although their heart was in the right place, the way they chose to go about it not so much.
Speaker 2:For the world to fully transition to electrified transportation, a range of vehicle types and form factors will be needed, and this is RJ Scringe, the head of Rivian, said in a release. I'm extremely excited about the innovations developed by the Elso team that will underpin a range of highly compelling micromobility products that will help define new categories. Mobility products that will help define new categories, which is pretty cool. But trust me when I tell you Rivian here is not alone. In fact, join other automakers who have explored expanding into the electric micro mobility statement in recent years, such as electric scooters that I just talked about.
Speaker 2:But here's the difference Notice that also didn't pin all our hopes on e-scooters that they're looking at, reimagining what micro mobility looks like, not just in the United States, not just in urban areas, but around the world. It could look very different in Rome as opposed to Chicago. It could look very different in small-town America as opposed to perhaps a vacation spot in the Alps or maybe even the outback in Australia. They're looking at all of this and when they say they're going to redefine it, it means that they're considering things that will work, that we don't even fathom right now, that some of this stuff, when we see it, we'll go duh, why didn't I think of that? But right now it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:And that is the beautiful part of the transportation space. It's always been like that. Somebody gets an idea, somebody gets a spin to present it differently, to offer an opportunity to solve a transportation challenge that's not currently being met. In the beginning it was railroads over roads, because roads were muddy, undependable, impassable, and it changed everything. From there we went to roads, fairly funded highways, where America got freedom, big time freedom. And now we're reimagining the whole.
Speaker 2:How do we get from point A to point B? And what does that look like, not just here in the United States but around the world? What does that look like? And Rivian has carved out a seat at the table through also, and it should be very exciting to see how they reimagine it and what that looks like and how they would choose to deploy it Time will tell and, like I said, they're not alone. Other automakers will follow suit, namely Ford and Honda, to name two. But we're not there yet and we will be in due time and that's the exciting part, and I wanted to share that with you. Let you know what's going on. Find out which automotive makes finished at the top of this year's JD Power Vehicle Dependability Survey. You are listening to the Tech Mobility Show.
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Speaker 2:Social media is the main place to be these days, and we are no exception. I'm Ken Chester of the Tech Mobility Show. If you enjoy my program, then you will also enjoy my weekly Facebook videos, from my latest vehicle reviews to timely commentary of a variety of mobility and technology-related topics. These short features are designed to inform and delight you. Be sure to watch, like and follow us on Facebook. You can find us by typing the Tech Mobility Show in the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to our Facebook page. Social media is the place to be these days. We're no exception. I'm ken chester, the tech mobility show. If you enjoy my program, then you will also enjoy my weekly instagram videos, from the latest vehicle reviews to timely commentary on a variety of mobility and technology related topics. These short features are designed to inform and delight you be sure to watch, like and follow us on Instagram. You can find us by typing the Tech Mobility Show in the search bar.
Speaker 2:For those of you that listen to podcasts, we have just the one for you. Hi, I'm Ken Chester. Tech Mobility Topics is a podcast where I upload topic-specific videos each week, shorter than a full show. These bite-sized programs are just the thing, particularly if you're interested in a particular topic covered on the weekly radio show, from Apple Podcasts to iHeartRadio and many podcast platforms in between. We got you covered. Just enter Tech Mobility Topics in the search bar, wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1:And I can't stand that spot. I told you to stay out of the kitchen. Isn't it strange that people spend five days a week trapped inside an office Only to spend their weekends trapped inside a fence Presenting the 1994 24-valve 175-horsepower rodeo? It can take you where you won't feel Boxed in. It's soon, practically amazing.
Speaker 2:Do you remember, if you're, a certain age back in the day, when a motor vehicle was actually freedom? Do you even remember and this is what now, only three or four years ago, five days a week in an office? Does anybody really do that anymore? I mean it's crazy. And the fact that folks are actually hemmed in when in today's world you could be anywhere doing anything just with an internet connection, no telling where you are, let alone where you live on the weekends. And the fact that that commercial intoned that a vehicle could be your freedom out of the drudgery, the call of the open road. This was the 1990s and that was an Isuzu Trooper, which, for Isuzu, was one of their more successful SUVs. And forgive me if you are one of those that said Isuzu, yes, isuzu, what we would have called a second tier Japanese auto manufacturer, sold vehicles at retail to consumers. They had dealerships even right here in Des Moines, and GM invested in them for a hot minute. Yeah, Isuzu was known for more than just commercial trucks. Just thought I'd share that.
Speaker 2:Jd Power recently released the results of its most recent Vehicle Dependability Survey. The JD Power US Vehicle Dependability Survey is an annual survey that assesses the reliability of vehicles after three years of ownership, focusing on problems reported by original owners, and uses a problems per 100 vehicles metric to quantify dependability. Per 100 vehicles metric to quantify dependability Conducted annually for the last 35 years. Jd Power analyzes the data to identify trends, to assess the reliability of different brands and models and to provide insights to automakers to improve vehicle quality and dependability. The study covers a wide range of problem areas including climate control, driving assistance, driving experience, exterior features, controls, displays, infotainment, interior, powertrain and seats. Bear in mind these are vehicles that were built towards the end of the pandemic. I break down the results, and this is topic A. Jd Power also does an initial quality survey of vehicles and their condition after the first 90 days, which I always wondered. What was the point? Three years, where I think would be a better indicator of long-term ownership, particularly with the price of vehicles these days. Three years for most automakers you're still under warranty. What I want to know is how do these vehicles fare once they're out of warranty, once they've been driven a while and been through a few cycles? The problem is by seven years. Very often it's not necessarily the original owner and I think that's what they were trying to get Somebody who bought it new and drove it a minimum of three years, because back in the day, oh my, that used to be a car loan, a 36-month loan, but we don't do those anymore. So who finished at the top Should not surprise you it was Lexus. It remained the top.
Speaker 2:This is its third year and their problems per 100 vehicles actually increased by 5 to 140. Problems per 100 vehicles actually increased by 5 to 140. That means for every 100 vehicles that rolls off a Lexus assembly line, each car had on average 1.4 problems with it. And that's the top. You don't want to see the bottom. The bottom and I won't name the names names yet, but the worst performing ones are actually closing in on 300 per hundred, which means it had three problems per hundred after three years.
Speaker 2:Here's something that may surprise you. I told you who number one was and you're probably yelling right now saying, ah, I know what it is. It it's Toyota, toyota's number two, right, toyota Toyota? No, it's not. Number two in the JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study for this year is Buick. Buick. It was second overall and was the top-ranked mass market brand, overtaking Toyota, which dropped to third just behind Mazda. Buick yes, I said it Buick, a General Motors brand Buick Across the industry.
Speaker 2:The average number of problems per 100 vehicles studied rose actually to 202. This is an average 6% increase. It's the largest year-to-year increase in a 36-year study, according to the director of auto benchmarking at JD Power, and largely reflects software bugs and smartphone integration and connectivity yeah, one of my pet peeves with my 2018 Chevy Equinox connecting my Android phone. We have moments. We'll just leave it at that from time to time. This rise in long-term reliability follows a period of upheaval across the industry as automakers struggle to rebound from pandemic shutdowns, remote work, supply chain glitches and a chronic microchip shortage.
Speaker 2:Remember that, with 2021 to 2022, a period of profound disruption. Do you remember Ford parking thousands of F-150s? They couldn't sell because they needed a chip? Remember that. Remember dealer lots being empty? You remember that? Yeah, we're talking back. Then. Those headwinds and challenges took a toll on new vehicle launches. The study found that, out of 27 new or redesigned models launched in 2022, only four performed better than average for this segment. Four, four.
Speaker 2:Let me give you the rest of the top five because I think that is relevant, and then I'm going to give you the top 10. After Buick top five. So you got Lexus one, buick two, mazda three, toyota, four. Get ready for this Number five in the top five, with the amount of things gone wrong after three years at 169,. Cadillac rounded out the top five In number six, chevrolet. Number seven, gmc. Number eight, porsche. Number nine, bmw and the tenth, mini. Those are the top 10. Should surprise you because you're saying General Motors, yeah, gm Buick, cadillac, mm-hmm, mm-hmm In the top, those in the top five at Chevy and GMC in the top ten.
Speaker 2:Let me give you the top models because that's by nameplate. Most dependable model number one Toyota Avalon Again, no surprise. Number two, compact car Toyota Corolla no surprise, but number two most reliable compact car dependable Kia Forte. Number three, subaru Impreza. Midsize car. Top three Toyota Camry. Number one, nissan Altima. Number two, hyundai Sonata. Number three Compact SUV Toyota RAV4, gmc Terrain, mazda CX-5, which is a volume leader for Mazda. Imagine that. Assume AI Prove the need for humans. Welcome to the new normal.
Speaker 2:This is the Tech Mobility Show. Do you listen to podcasts? Seems that most people do. Hi, I'm Ken Chester, host of the Tech Mobility Show. If you've missed any of our weekly episodes on the radio, our podcast is a great way to listen. You can find the Tech Mobility Podcast just about anywhere you can enjoy podcasts. Be sure to follow us from Apple Podcasts, iheart Radio and many platforms in between. We are there. Just enter the Tech Mobility Podcast in the search bar. Wherever you listen to podcasts, social media, it's the place to be, and we're no exception. Hi, I'm Ken Chester, host of the TechMobility show. Several times a week, I post to TikTok several of the topics that I cover on my weekly radio show. It's another way to keep up on mobility technology news and information. I've built quite a library of short videos for your viewing pleasure, so be sure to watch, like and subscribe. That's the Tech Mobility Show on TikTok. Check it out.
Speaker 2:I really thought this would be five, maybe 10 years away. I never thought that this would be happening in real time right now, literally three years after the launch of ChatGPT. And here it is. A CEO of a major company in the United States has told his employees not to add any new hires that's spelled human beings unless they can prove that AI can't do the job. This is happening right now in America, right now. This is not a hypothetical people. This is happening right now in America, right now. This is not a hypothetical people. This is going on, this has happened, and I'll tell you who the company is in a minute.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Topic B. Let's take a step back. What the CEO is saying is assume agentic AI is part of the solution For whatever application within the company. You're looking to hire somebody. Now prove that AI, with the tools that the company has developed, cannot fulfill the staffing need you need. Only then will you have the grounds to actually add a human being to the payroll of this company. What does that do for people with those skill sets? If this is the beginning, if this is the canary in the coal, mine then could. And these are not factory jobs. These are not mundane jobs. You know the ones you would think that would be repetitive, kind of like an automatic welder and assembly plant. No, we're not talking about that. These are literally tech jobs, information jobs, if you will, if I should be so bold management or even white collar jobs.
Speaker 2:The name of the company is Shopify and its CEO, toby Lutke. He released the letter that he released to his team because somebody released it and was trying to be all negative and he said no, no, no, no. Let me give you all the facts. He has reframed this statement. It reframes headcount planning, performance management and workflow design around a single question Can software replace this job function? Now, back in 2023, shopify launched Sidekick, an AI assistant for merchants that create discount codes, generates reports and automate routine tasks. Merchants that create discount codes, generates reports and automate routine tasks. Now bear in mind, literally a year after ChatGPT breaks out Shopify has an agent AI application already. Even before agent AI even got the traction, it's getting now in the attention. The CEO says it's the fastest shift in work practices he's seen in his career.
Speaker 2:Yet the policy raises a cascade of questions Like, for example, who decides if the AI has failed? What metrics determine when a task truly requires a human, and are we building efficiency or just deferring hard questions to systems that may not be flexible enough or ready to do the job? Because we've seen glitches? Ai does hallucinate. There are some cases where you still need, at least at this point, human curation. Bottom line, though we may be witnessing the emergence of a new leadership doctrine, assume AI proved the need for humans. That should be chilling to everybody, because this is what's going on Now. It's ironic.
Speaker 2:If you don't know what Shopify is, let me kind of give you the rundown, because I kind of assumed you've heard of Shopify. Shopify is a Canadian e-commerce platform that allows businesses to create and manage online stores, offering tools for building websites, selling products, processing payments and managing inventory, all in a quote, user-friendly, cloud-based environment. End of quote. Now consider Shopify software as a service platform, meaning that businesses pay a monthly fee to use the platform and its features. And what Shopify is saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we are doing this to facilitate our customers and help our customers use our platform more fully, then we should be using these same tools, or better tools, to help ourselves.
Speaker 2:Meaning if AI can't, maybe I can hire somebody, but again, who's going to come up with the metrics? And wouldn't those metrics look different depending on the task at hand or the job needed to be done? Who defines the metrics and then who buys in, depending on the task at hand or the job needed to be done? Who defines the metrics and then who buys in that the metrics as defined are reasonable, attainable, realistic? That's a whole question in and of itself that his letter does not address.
Speaker 2:Even if a team goes out there, what metrics are they comparing against to say, okay, we need these tasks done, we have these AI tools at our disposal. We feel we need to hire somebody for the nuance that this job requires. All right, who's going to apply the metrics to this situation? That says okay, in order for you to justify one way or the other. These are the metrics that need to be fulfilled. These are what we're going to measure the AI against, to see whether or not it can do it. This is what we're going to measure whether or not we need a human being for. This is a big deal, because if somebody is arbitrarily doing that, or making an arbitrary decision with no input, they may be realistically shooting themselves in the foot, assuming that AI can do everything, when in fact, not recognizing the limitations of AI as it is now, even though it is evolving at warp speed.
Speaker 2:And if you think your job is not subject to AI, then I feel for you. That is what the Hollywood writer's strike was all about the use of AI, even down to what I do. All of what I do can be replaced with AI, even down to mimicking my voice, all of it, the research that I do, all of it, because I process mounds of information for you and determine stuff that I like, stuff. I find interesting that I think you will too, and that's what kind of drives what I cover each and every week. Now imagine I could go to an agentic AI, define all of that and have it spew all of that, use some other software to mimic my voice and my mannerisms and suddenly you have a show where I ain't nowhere near the place and it's generating stories probably better than me or writing a better script, without all the imperfections and the ahs and the ums. That's scary, but I believe, and it's my faith, that at least when it comes to content creation aspect of this, that people want authenticity still, and authenticity really is human.
Speaker 2:Ai can do a lot of stuff, and the Shopify letter generates more questions than it answers. But it's the conversation that companies are at the cusp, just the cusp of trying to grapple with how do you define the metrics in which AI is applicable or not, particularly when it comes to headcount staffing and how you manage your business? Will it totally replace us? Don't know, but least it's spotify. It's the start of a conversation that they're now just starting to have and I suspect that it won't be the last conversation the companies will have in the trucking industry. It's called a messy middle, the place between fossil fuels and decarbonization.
Speaker 2:We take a peek at the process. We are the Tech Mobility Show. To learn more about the Tech Mobility Show, start by visiting our website. Hi, I'm Ken Chester, host of the Tech Mobility Show. The website is a treasure trove of information about me and the show, as well as where to find it on the radio across the country. Keep up with the happenings of the Tech Mobility Show by visiting techmobilityshow. That's techmobilityshow. You can also drop us a line at talk at techmobilityshow. Did you know that Tech Mobility has a YouTube channel? Hi, I'm Ken Chester, host of the TechMobility Show. Each week, I upload a few short videos of some of the hot topics that I cover during my weekly radio program. I've designed these videos to be informative and entertaining. It's another way to keep up on current mobility and technology news and information. Be sure to watch, like and subscribe to my channel. That's the Tech Mobility Show on YouTube. Check it out.
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Speaker 2:Social media is the place to be these days, and we're no exception. I'm Ken Chester of the Tech Mobility Show. If you enjoy my program, then you will also enjoy my weekly Instagram videos From the latest vehicle reviews to timely commentary on a variety of mobility and technology-related topics. These short features are designed to inform and delight you. Be sure to watch, like and follow us on Instagram. You can find us by typing the Tech Mobility Show in the search bar.
Speaker 2:It's called the messy middle and this is the term used within the commercial trucking industry to identify the amount of trial and error invested by trucking fleets to find the right combination of available technologies to transition their fleets to low or zero emissions. Industry veterans suggest that this state within trucking could last for decades. We take a look. This is Topic C. I'm reading from a white paper issued by the North American Council for Freight Efficiency, and they're an outfit that looks at helping the trucking industry come to grips with freight efficiency, in other words, how to move a one ton of freight one mile for the lowest possible cost in the most efficient way, and they have a lot of different programs that they talk about. This white paper grapples with something that we've talked about briefly before, called the messy middle, and the reason why it's messy. You have trucking fleets of all kinds. You have single operator owners of small fleets, specialty trucking applications. There may be tankers. They haul special materials, hazmat materials, all of this stuff. And then you have long-haul trucking, which is exactly what it sounds like Routes over 500 miles where they are hauling freight from point A to point B, covering a lot of miles over a lot of time, usually time-sensitive, usually subject to hours of service, which is federal law, which means the driver can only drive so many consecutive hours consecutively in a given 24-hour period.
Speaker 2:Once they hit what they call their hours, they must stop. That is not an option and with electric logs these days they can't fudge the numbers. They can't not anymore. When they were paper logs they could kind of fudge when they actually stopped driving and things and a lot did, because there's a lot of pressure to deliver that load on time. Now they're looking at not only do I need to deliver it on time, but I need to get my costs down for delivering it. I need to deal with the fact that the long haul part of trucking is a part of the business that is having problems attracting and retaining drivers.
Speaker 2:It's a rough life. You're gone from home a long time. You are all over the country in all kinds of weather. You got a load to deliver. You may spend hours waiting at a truck dock to get in to get your load. Unfortunately, while you're sitting you ain't earning, because most trucking operations, unless you work for a company fleet, you get paid by the mile and if those wheels ain't turning you ain't earning. And while you're sitting in your truck the meter's running on your hours of service. So you got all of this dealing with, plus the cost of the rig itself and the maintenance of the rig itself.
Speaker 2:How many truckers end up on the side of the road? Their rigs broke down in real time. So efficiency is one thing, and I'm talking about an industry that is fighting over a tenth of a mile in improvement in efficiency out of a gallon of diesel fuel and that turns into a big, big money, particularly when you're looking at the average vehicle now gets maybe eight to nine miles a gallon the big rig trucks. So you're looking at decarbonization and I'm going to be blunt with you right here. When it comes to long haul trucking, battery electrics aren't the answer. They're not. In order to have the batteries necessary to move upwards of 60 tons of truck and freight 500 miles, you're going to have to have a whole lot of batteries and if that's the case, they're going to take away from the trucker's ability to haul paying freight, which means it's a non-starter, which is why, for the big trucks over the long distances, they're looking at a whole bunch of things, which also includes running battery fuel cells, tanking with hydrogen it's not as heavy, doesn't take as much and you don't need hours to have to charge the thing, which is the other challenge. If you can't go because you need to charge, because your range is only 350, 400 miles, that quickly becomes unattractive. But as truckers look at all of this stuff that works for them, there's a million different things going on this association, the North American Council they say in their white paper that they see a zero-emission future for trucking arriving now and saturating the market around 2050. So you're about 25 years tops. Let me read how they define the messy middle. Well, let me break it down as the present messy middle and the future 2050 real quick. Here's where they are right now.
Speaker 2:Technologies are mature, many unknowns and challenges, legacy diesels Diesels have been running for years and years and years. And natural gas. Excuse me, these are the options. They're running with Messy middle Many optimization solutions, growing infrastructure, multifuel choices, innovation and maturation, facts replacing estimates, learning curves. And then you've got to balance that against diesel advancements, natural gas, hybrids, burning hydrogen, hydrogen as a fuel in an internal combustion engine, battery, electrics, hydrogen, fuel cells, renewable natural gas and biodiesel and more. And then there's 2050, fast charging, hydrogen everywhere, long life, low-cost batteries, acceptable weights and cost, and then different derivatives from clean energy. Now I'm talking fast because there is so much, which hence the issue, and I'm not even going to get into a variety of powertrain solutions. That's just for openers that they can look at, and then they talk about factors and decision making. There's a lot going on.
Speaker 2:If you're looking at hydrogen, we'll keep it simple Hydrogen, whether you burn it or whether you're using it as a chemical reaction in a fuel cell. Biggest problem infrastructure and the fact that if you're going to use hydrogen, you want clean hydrogen, and that means it's being derived through an electrolyzer from water. So that's a water source number one, a power source which would be renewable, whether it be solar or wind or something else like that, hydroelectric, maybe because those electrolyzers require a lot of power. Because those electrolyzers require a lot of power, the good news is there's a lot of green hydrogen production facilities coming online, but it still pales in comparison of what the truckers are going to need and where they're going to need it. So you got that. And if you are a trucking asset manager, looking at the life of your trucks and looking at what to replace and looking where to put your money, each one of these trucks are many hundreds of thousands of dollars, whether they're diesels or something else, and I haven't been able to even begun to talk about biodiesel or renewable natural gas.
Speaker 2:It was a whole nother conversation, hence the term messy middle. They got a lot going on and no one solution is going to work for everybody. This is definitely not one size fits all, but they're looking at it and the one thing's for sure decarbonization is happening and it's real. That is happening in the trucking industry right now. The question is how different fleets and different organizations look at how to get there. That's the issue. We've come to the end of our visit. Be sure to join me again right here next time. This has been the Tech Mobility Show.
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